Wednesday, February 25, 2009

On Choices and Consequences

In spite of it being yet another dreary day here in Neverland, and the promise to myself to stay in today and get everything done that was on my 'to do' list, I decided to go on a quick shopping outing with Desere. An outing which proved fruitful, since I was able to find some new kitchen towels, something that I was in need of. I also found a few things that I didn't need, but isn't that always the case?

This morning over breakfast, Marcel and I (more me than Marcel), were listening to Anderson Cooper 360 that I'd DVR'd last night. They were playing President Obama's speech and when he began discussing the closure of Guantanimo Bay 'Gitmo' and how there would be no torture and abuse of terrorists, Marcel gave a quick, "He's Right".

Since it was something that we've never discussed, I asked him why he felt that way, and he responded with the fact that no one should be beaten and abused, terrorist or not, because after all, 'they are people too'. (His words.)

That actually sparked a debate between the two of us, because I feel quite the opposite, at least where terrorists are concerned.

I believe that ALL people should be treated with respect and dignity, BUT, I believe when you make the choice to cause terrorist acts that can ultimately be responsible for hundreds if not thousands of lives, you give up that right to be treated with dignity and respect.

Marcel disagrees, and we stand at the point that we agree to disagree.

Marcel says that beating them to get information is pointless, because they've been trained not to break. In that respect, he's probably right, but I believe it's worth a try.

I'm a very non-violent person, but this is actually something I feel pretty strongly about.

To some, it may seem like a contradiction in terms, but it's clear in my eyes.

I see it along the same lines as those who are sexual predators and who have been convicted of sex crimes.

Many, if not all of them feel that after they've served their time in prison that they should be afforded the same right to privacy as anyone else, where I feel that they gave up that right the moment they chose such a crime against another human being. I personally want to know where the child sex offenders are in my neighborhood. Wouldn't you?

So tell me, how do you feel? I'm curious.

My Gratitude List for February 25, 2009.

Today I'm Grateful For:

1- Orange Cranberry Compote from Williams-Sonoma, which is the best I've ever eaten.

2- My friend D., who I've been out of contact with for many years, made contact with me through Facebook.

3- Flannel sheets on those cold, dreary days.

4- My friends, my 'true blues', whom I love dearly.

5- Getting coupons in the mail- out of the blue. I love, love, love myself a bargain.


becomingkate said...

I think that there must be a better way to handle it than torturing someone.
My mom would say that someone who does that would be "stooping to a lower level" and I have to agree.
I wouldn't torture a pedphile either, but if he's beyond guilty, I'd put him down like a dog.

Wizardress said...

I think the torture comes when they try to get answers. I don't necessarily think it's 'right', but I'm also not for treating them with respect and dignity either- after all they chose the crime.

As far as pedos, I'm with you. I won't even get started on that subject, but I do not feel as though they have the right to live and do as they please once they have served their sentence. I think they SHOULD be registered so people know where they live. Wouldn't you want to know?

greeneyes67 said...

I'm with you on this one Wizzy. I'm really liberal but I think sexual predators and terrorists give up many of their rights as humans when they have such low regard for human life. I can't help it, I feel that way. I sure hope Obama has a plan of where to put those people. I didn't listen to the speech. I hope they aren't coming here. It's a little scary.

Anyway, thanks for stopping by my blog. I sure have missed you!

Fijufic said...

If you want someone to talk to you then you have to develop a relationship with them. Torture only gets people to say what they think you want to hear just so you will stop.

Inhumane. Two wrongs don't make it right either.

The old WW2 guys were the best at extracting info because they would sit down with the prisoners and play chess and cards and have normal conversations. They prided themselves in this form of interrogation and when you hear them talk they cannot fathom the torture we talk about till this very day.

I could go on and on about this but imagine being incarcerated wrongly and tortured which is a possibility in this Gitmo case. Their whole family would sign up just to get even with us!!!!

I'm all about a strong military and have friendships with many a person on this front line.

Now if you know the information anyway then torture is something you use to spread fear to anyone who would get caught being a terrorist.

It is essentially terrorizing the terrorist groups. This activity absolutely polarizes them against us.

In the end what does it do? No new info and we have become terrorists ourselves.

Short term scare tactics may work for things such as where someone may be stashed in an emergency but long term hard core intelligence cannot be obtained by torture.

This is my opinion based on conversations with many a military brass of yesteryear.

They won by the way in a time where information was so much more difficult to obtain.

Look at us now? We are still fighting and because of our torture tactics we have scared the terrorist groups into different cells and they do not know what each other are doing because the head of the snake is not clear to them.

Long term torture does not work. I suspect this war on terrorism is a long term problem.



Dorrie said...

I agree with Marcel and Bobby.

Torture will NOT get the information you want but someone innocent might say what you want to hear just to stop the torture. Most of those in Gitmo are probably innocent and thus did not give up any rights... they didn't do anything! If it's 100% proven that someone is guilty, then lock em up, but torture doesn't help at all!

As to peds... they are sick and need to be treated accordingly, if necessary with meds and/or "snip-snip", if you know what I mean...

Fijufic said...

There is no cure for someone who has pedophilia. You can't change a person's sexual orientation.

Many pedophiles were once the prey of pedophiles in their youth. The cycle continues in other words. Awful stuff and sometimes you forget these pedophiles were in most if not many cases once victims themselves.

Sick stuff no doubt. I don't have the answer for this issue other than to want to stay as far away from them as possible. It is beyond my scope of abilities to remedy.

All very sad. Still they make choices. They know right from wrong and should be punished accordingly.

Count me out. It is sick beyond my comprehension.


Ramsey said...

far as i'm concerned, those in Gitmo should be treated the same as we treat POWS. but the hardcore terrorists should be kept in confinement. a few that have already been released are back on doing more terrorist acts.

as for anyone that abuses a child, i'd say the death penalty. simply for the fact that they destroy a child's future and it isn't fair for them (pedo's) to have a so-called life.

Maggsworld said...

I would personally defend MY or any other child to the death, and not flinch or think anything of it. I do not believe torture gets you anything other than what they think you want to hear and ill make things up. Terrorists make violent choices ( live by the sword and often also die by the sword) and as you know these would not be my choices. What goes around, comes around given time. I am not sure it is our place to enact this.

Charm said...

RE. "I was able to find some new kitchen towels, something that I was in need of. I also found a few things that I didn't need, but isn't that always the case?"

Yes, I think it IS the case that we also find things we don't need when shopping. ;) I really need some new potholders, but I haven't been able to find anything I like. I need to find something soon, or make what I want though; mine are getting pretty worn. :P

On the subjects of terrorists and torture, and pedophiles, I am too tired to give a detailed comment at the moment, but the short answer is that I don't necessarily have a problem with torture, and some of what has been constituted as "torture" by U.S. troops in recent years pales in comparison to acts of torture in other times, and even in comparison to some of the things that have been done to our troops in more recent history.

As far as pedophiles go, again, I don't have a lot of concern for their "rights." Rehabilitation is unlikely, relapse is high, and the public and its most vulnerable people in the population have a right to be protected that supersedes the rights of the pedophile.

I still owe you a message ...

Had hoped to have it written by now. :P Tomorrow is another day. I'll try to get that message off to you tomorrow.


Morphine said...

The first thing I want to say is that I think it's wonderful that you two can agree to disagree. That's not as easy as it may seem!

With El being poli-sci, in general, you have to guess where he truly stands. He'll take an opposing side, even if he doesn't agree with it and does agree with you, to see if you CAN argue your point and truly believe that or if you're just saying what you think you "Should" say. I used to hate that. Funny thing is over six years of him doing that I look forward to when we come across something we haven't debated yet.

Be that as it may, this is one thing he and I both agree on. We're in the same boat you are basically. I believe that if you've done half the horrible things some of these men and women have done, you're no longer a human being and don't deserve to be treated like one. You're nothing but another monster trying to prove you're badder than the rest of them.

Then again, I think they should all be locked on an island together. Stop feeding them and taking care of them and let them fight it out like hungry packs of wolves and just take each other down.

Wizardress said...

Hey y'all- I just got home and had an email from mom and said that I'd opened a can of worms. She said that I always liked debates (she swears I get it from my diddy) and so that I'd love the comments here.

Of course, with that being said, I couldn't log into blogger fast enough to read everyones comments.

I loved them all, and even if I don't necessarily share some of your views, I definitely respect your opinions and enjoy seeing how other people think and feel about certain issues, and has given me food for thought in the process.

Thank y'all for that :)

Morphine, you are right- it is not always easy to agree to disagree, and sometimes we do get into pretty heated discussions. This one didn't get too heated, but I always find it interesting in the fact that Marcel is European and the European perspective seems to be MUCH different than ours in North America. I'm fairly certain that the media spin on things here has alot to do with that perspective. It can be frustrating at times though.

*hugsss* Y'all, thanks so much for taking the time to share your views- I really appreciate it.